Episode 12 / Dwayne Brown, founder of Headshots Matter
/In this episode of Views From The Nest actor and model Les Awuah chats with Dwayne Brown, Founder of Headshots Matter, about just why headshots matter, how to find the right headshot photographer, how to prepare for your session much more...
Note: View on YouTube for captions.
"A good photographer will balance the technical, the physics, the emotional intelligence, and still have a certain amount of headspace to be looking for details and then to not be too stiff about the approach so that you can then emote. It's a tricky dance. It's not for the faint of heart, for sure." - Dwayne Brown
-
Les: So today I'm with Dwayne Brown, founder of Headshots Matter. So hey, how you doing?
Dwayne: Great. How are you?
Les: Great. Yeah. Lovely to meet you.
Dwayne: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Les. So Les, you're an actor. So you at times require headshots?
Les: I do. I do indeed. So, it'd be great to get your perspective and I guess find out why they actually matter.
Dwayne: Well, that's that's a great question. So, maybe to get to that answer, I'll give a little bit of background on what we do and why I started it and and and how the trajectory has happened. I'm a corporate commercial photographer back in Canada. And in the earlier part of my career, the only people who ever got a headshot was a CEO or a CFO or a VP of this or that. And then as LinkedIn came on stream, then more corporate folks or just any professional needed a headshot. Actors have always needed one, and they're the only ones who really called them headshot. Like the corporate folks called it a portrait. But as LinkedIn kind of came on stream, I saw that opportunity for me as a photographer. So, I started shooting more people who weren't at a higher level in the corporate world. And I started doing LinkedIn portraits. And because of that happening, I started a the predecessor project to Headshots Matter called LinkedIn Portraits.com. And uh, and I had kind of built it up to a certain extent. And then Covid happened and that changed it and we went quiet on it. Covid seemed to kind of get figured out and we reignited it but felt that it wasn't broad enough to encompass the other types of headshots. So we flipped the name over to Headshots Matter and then really leaned in and and grew it the best that we could. And at that time when we flipped it, we had about 30 or 40 members and now we're at about 220 and we're everywhere. Maybe not everywhere, but most major cities, you know, lots in the UK, lots in Germany, Sweden, Hong Kong, a few in Africa, a lot in the United States, a bunch in Canada, and growing in South America, growing in the Middle East, and it's really fun for me. Part of it that I didn't really see coming was the community that has developed and with every community friendships as well. So it's been really cool.
Les: Yeah. Sounds it. So when you say we're talking global...
Dwayne: Yes.
Les: Lovely. So that's interesting actually. So obviously you're in loads of different markets. How do they all approach headshots? Is it all the same or do you find different markets maybe look at it in a different way or do they mean the same?
Dwayne: Yeah, so that's a great question. So from where I sit, I get to sort of see the slight differences. So America for actors, let's say, has a little bit more polish and veneer in a way. The UK has a little more grit, has a little more - the character is captured. Other parts of Europe like Germany and Sweden for sure. It's really about capturing the real character. Canada is kind of a bit of a hybrid of those. You know, Asia, I think it's a little bit more polished. So yeah, for sure each of the markets are are a bit different, but every photographer is a bit different as well. And you know I guess you know I should also mention that a very big part of what we bring to the industry is we want the photographers that we have in our community to be different. We want to celebrate them as being the unique artist that they are. We definitely don't look for people that are all shooting the same way. We love that even in the London market you know there's probably six or eight Associate Members that we have and everyone shoots a bit differently and from an actor's perspective that's great because I think every photographer is going to photograph an actor in a in a different way you know, it's part of that human connection as well. A photographer like Roj (Whitelock) would see you differently than another photographer like Chris Mann might. Both of those, you know, styles when you present them in your virtual portfolio, it just helps to show range and depth.
Les: Okay. Amazing. So, I've got two questions that's come up in my head actually. First one, what makes a good headshot?
Dwayne: Well, I I think you know, it's funny. I was talking with another photographer about this in the last couple days. As photographers, we feel that what we're doing is we're capturing imagery, but really what we're doing is we're capturing confidence. And so a good headshot, I believe, needs to sort of capture an element of confidence. And maybe it's helping that actor or corporate person to you know, feel a little more confident and to sort of present that forward. Why does it matter? Well, because you want to be seen. You want to put your best face forward.
Les: So, you spoke about building a relationship with a good with a photographer and maybe picking based on that.
Dwayne: Yeah.
Les: So, how much of a technical aspect do we kind of not necessarily ignore but not lead with?
Dwayne: It's a good question and it's hard for an actor or a corporate professional to know this part of it. But to be a good headshot photographer, we have to balance a variety of things. You need to be technically proficient so that you know how to use your equipment, camera, lighting. You need to actually even have a kind of an understanding or appreciation of the physics of lighting, of where it goes and how it can bring out the best in a face. A good headshot photographer also needs to be emotionally intelligent or at least learn emotional intelligent kind of practices so that they can engage that trust and calm the person and bring things out. So it's a hard one. I guess when you do look at a portfolio online, a website, social media, you'll get a sense of that consistency. You'll see imagery that shows difference, but also at the same time shows consistency. I think that's a good thing to be looking for and to look at the attention to detail. I'm more personally, I'm a corporate photographer back in Canada. No, I don't photograph actors, so I'm always chasing the attention to detail. So, the straightness of things, no lint, no flyaways. So, a good photographer will balance the technical, the physics, the emotional intelligence, and still have a certain amount of headspace to be looking for details and then to not be too stiff about the approach so that you can then emote. It's a tricky dance. It's not for the faint of heart, for sure.
Les: So, as someone who's quite new into their career, kind of trying new things, because I'm at a stage where I don't want to say no to anything because I don't know what I don't know. How should I be approaching photographers to kind of maybe pull something out of me that I don't even know is there myself?
Dwayne: So, you asked that question and you ask the question, I am new at this. What can I expect from the the process? actually even that concept like you want to select a photographer based on what they can come up with, an end result but you also want to have a very good process you want to have it to be respectful and kind and supportive and everybody needs to leave their egos at the door, because it's a very vulnerable, vulnerable experience being photographed whether you're an actor who might be used to being in front of a a camera or a film camera or corporate folks that might be very comfortable being in front of people, but being photographed is very vulnerable. So, you need to find a photographer who respects those concepts and that you feel a good comfort of trust. It's super important.
Les: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. And in terms of headshots themselves, how many would you think you need over say a period of two years, three years? Is it something that you should be revisiting, getting new ones done? Should you be going to the same photographer or should you be trying different photographers to try and capture different styles?
Dwayne: If I were an actor, I would want to be photographed by different photographers for sure. Every photographer is going to approach your photo, your photographs, your headshot differently. Just like, you know, if you meet six different people in a pub, you're going to have different conversations. They're going to ask you different questions. You're going to feel different sense of comfort. So, it's even okay to use a photographer who is a little new to the game because you just never know. The price point might be lower and you might be able to collaborate more with them. It's possible, but then working with a photographer that's very experienced, they're going to, you're going to be able to put yourself in their hands and they're going to help walk you through the process maybe a wee bit differently.
Les: So, we saying so, you know, normally people say you get what you pay for. Would you say that this doesn't apply to headshots?
Dwayne: You always get what you pay for. And I think that you need to make your decision based on everything involved. Never base it on price. You may have to be respectful of what your budget is for sure, but try to find who's the right fit for you. You know that's so important in all interactions, in all sorts of business sort of interactions. It's very important to have that kind of comfort. It's like getting going to someone who does hair. They might be very technically proficient but maybe you just don't really like their style and you don't feel good about it. So you might be better going somewhere else.
Les: Okay. Yeah. So, as an actor, spending hours scrolling through people's profile pictures and, you know, people's Instagram and you come across amazing images. Yeah. What should I be, what should I not be thinking? Because what I don't want to be is chasing a certain look that's not for me, but it's driven by what's either popular or, you know, trends and that kind of thing. How should I be, what should I be thinking when I'm doing that?
Dwayne: One of the things that I think is important these days is that, take the situation a little further. Think of it from a a casting director who is being asked to present a certain amount of faces for a role whether it's stage or film or commercial. You want to stand out. You want that photographer to have captured who you are and what you can bring to that equation. It's not an easy one to figure out. But the thing that I really think is important when you look at a photographer's sort of suite of imagery, you're going to get a sense of their style, but you want to be able to determine that actor, their character has sort of risen to the top beyond that photographer style because at the end of the day, it's your style that needs to be captured. Yes, the photographer, you know, over time has a certain sense of look and feel, but you don't want it to be too homogeneous to what everybody else looks like. It's very important to stand out, right?
Les: So, how important and it may sound like a silly question, but how important is wardrobe?
Dwayne: Well, again, that's going to be a conversation that you'll have with that photographer. As a photographer, as a corporate photographer, what we always say every photo tells a story. So that coincides also with an actor's headshot - every photo tells a story. So your wardrobe bring a variety because between you and your photographer you're going to decide what story is going to be told and your clothing will help tell that story. But also, you know, it's when when we have someone come in our door at the studio back in Canada, the person who we're photographing comes dressed in something, that's typically what they felt the best about. But you never know. So, if you have a variety of of clothing options, that's going to speak to the photographer and then, you know, you're going to come up - you're going to collaborate with them on what's going to work best.
Les: So, if there's one aspect that you would focus on when selecting a photographer, what would it be?
Dwayne: Yeah, again, great question. So, you're going to be attracted to a particular photographer most likely based on the aesthetic that they present, but it's important for you to have a conversation. Now, sometimes that conversation isn't always possible to have with voice, with a phone call or in person. So, even if you're corresponding, you want to use a photographer who's going to ask you the right questions because you want them to want to tell your story. They want to and that story isn't just today's story. It's a fluid story. Where have you been? Where are you? Where are you going? And so, you know, a good photographer is going to take the time to have that conversation with you. They may even may even want to research you a little bit to sort of say, well, this is what I know you've done and this is what I think we can do together. And it's again, you know, it comes back to then clothing comes into it, then approach comes into it. So, you know, everything is always about a story. Even when you're hired as an actor, like that's ultimately going to be what you're going to want to ingest from the the creative brief or from, you know, what a casting director is going to want to do. So, it's all about story. So, it comes down to even from the the headshot story, even something that's as close as a headshot, everything tells a story. So clothing, glasses, hair, expression, composition, like they all sort of will help dance around a particular way to tell that story.
Les: Yeah, that's great actually because I was just thinking when I first got into industry, I was street cast on my lunch break. So if someone had said to me, what's your story? I would be I don't have one, you know.
Dwayne: Yeah. So I guess when you say street cast, what does that mean?
Les: Scouted.
Dwayne: So someone just met you and said, "Hey, I think you should, I think you'll be great for a commercial I'm. casting for." So they were reacting to your aesthetic story that you sort of were, you know, how you dressed and how you presented yourself that day. So that's still, that's still story, right?
Les: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess at the time I didn't realise that.
Dwayne: Yeah. So I think sometimes the fear is what's my story and then you kind of just don't do anything. But actually you are the story.
Les: Yeah. So I guess sometimes it's just, you know, I think I was always looking for this dramatic beginning, middle, and end when actually I could just be at the start of the story and that's a story within itself.
Dwayne: Yeah. So again, I think that could be a really great way for an actor to make their decision is have that conversation when you can again, however you can correspond or talk with that photographer, bring up that concept of story. How will you help bring that story out or, you know it's helpful for you to understand it as well but a photographer is going to see you and they're going to maybe bring something else. So it's a dynamic equation.
Les: Okay. Yeah. Okay. So what makes Headshots Matter different to everyone else?
Dwayne: Good question. So and it even relates to how an actor would make their decision on why they would select a different photographer. A very big part of what I always wanted to sort of do with Headshots Matter is I wanted to curate a group of photographers that were all very different and unique in their aesthetic style but with a commonality of kindness, humility and passion for what they do. And it's not that they can't bring an ego forward or a sense of confidence because as a photographer to be able to do what we do, you do need a very good sense of confidence to be able to sort of kind of, you know command and take over the situation so that you know we can calm and disarm whoever we're photographing. But but Headshots Matter is very much a global community of photographers who, whether they're in the UK or the US or Canada, Asia, Africa, South America, there's a very interesting sort of common link that they're just good folks. And you know, part of what I've always wanted to do with in my personal relationship, my professional relationships, I love connecting good folks with good folks. And so that was always kind of the core of what I wanted to to do with Headshots Matter. And so you know we're always looking for photographers that are those good folks. You know, one of the other aspects that I'll mention that we have - it's become this community now. So, you know, as a photographer, whether you're in London or Toronto or Berlin, you're on your own. You shoot with somebody, but once that person leaves, then you're doing the editing on your own, doing the marketing on your own. And so, it's a bit of a a vocation that's a bit lonely. So, we have this community that photographers can ask each other some really important questions about marketing and pricing, creative process, and they can feel they've got camaraderie without competitiveness. It's really cool. It's, you know, and the friendships that have developed because of this community, it's been, you know, very exciting for me and and humbling.
Les: Okay. So, as an actor coming to a Headshots Matter photographer, what benefits would I get from that community that you've just described?
Dwayne: You're going to work with a photographer that I guess has, they've got folks behind them that have helped that, even if it's a junior photographer, they've helped that photographer maybe sort of stand a little taller creatively and you're going to deal with someone who's a good person who's not going to be too intimidating in the process - in the creative process. They're going to be supportive and helpful to you. So yeah, that's an interesting question. I hadn't really thought about that from the actor's perspective. What do you get consistently by working with a photographer that we have sort of curated in our community? But yeah, you're going to deal with someone who's a good person.
Les: So while selecting a photographer, how important is accreditation?
Dwayne: Well, you know, I think it's quite important because you're going to dedicate some resources to the experience of being photographed. So you want to be working with someone that is going to, I guess, do a good job for you. And you know, are Headshots Matter photographers accredited? I don't know if accreditation is really the way that I would describe it, but they're definitely vetted and they're definitely part of a community and it's not just that they are technically proficient. They're going to do a very good job to collaborate. Because they're just, you know, they're, as I said earlier, we like to use, we like to have a community that are good people and kind and supportive and humble, I guess. So, if you're deciding on finding a photographer, generally finding a photographer that does have some accreditation or some relationship with an association, I think it's quite helpful. You know, you can take a risk in finding a photographer who is a little more junior or emerging as we like to call them and you might have a great experience, but you know, we all need to be careful with the money that we spend these days. So, you know, investing those resources with a photographer that you feel a little bit better about just from I guess a standard perspective, I think is helpful.
Les: Okay. So, if I did choose a Headshots Matter photographer, am I leaving with anything more than just photographs?
Dwayne: Yeah. Again, great question. I'm going to put money on the table that what you're going to leave with not just great photos, you're going to leave with a friendship. Our photographers are great people. I visited yesterday with one of our photographers, Tom Trevatt. And I knocked on his studio door just as one of his clients was leaving and I got to meet her and Tom gave me a big hug and then he introduced me to his client and then when she left he gave her a big hug and then when I asked him after she left like, you know have you worked with her before? Uh no it's just the first time. So they shot for however however long they did, but they very quickly developed this very real friendship. And so you're going to leave feeling that you've had an experience that is respectful, kind, emotionally enriching and that you're going to feel like you've got a new friend.
Les: Great. Amazing. Yeah. Because I say some some of the the best shoots I've had - I mean I've never had a bad shoot ever. And that's not to say I've always got what I wanted, but I've left with something. Whether it's something where I know I never want to do that again, then for me it's an experience worth having But the best ones are when I leave with the photos, but also inspiration or just a nugget of information that, you know, makes the next shoot easier. I just think, yeah, that's just the priceless bonus. Yeah.
Dwayne: So, you asked earlier about wardrobe. What do you bring? And I think obviously wardrobe clothing is important, but what's maybe even more important is is bringing that sort of optimistic and open-minded mindset and to be open for collaboration, open for newness, open for - just to kind of have an experience that might be a little bit different than what you what you thought you were getting yourself into. And then that will lead to inspiration. And ultimately when there's a freedom of movement and freedom of emotion and a sense of trust, you're going to get better shots, better imagery. And um again, it's this emotionally intelligent experience that is dynamic and you're never really sure where it's going to go. It's almost always going to go in a very good direction, but again it's part of the human experience. And and even talking about that, you know, all of our photographers are now talking a lot about AI and one of the things that we like to sort of think about is that there's - AI is very important. We don't have a choice. It's part of our new world in photography. It's very much a part of our world in post-production but in the actual photography the imagery creation and capturing nothing compares with emotional intelligence and the real human experience. So a photographer will sort of you know work with you and from a very human experience so that you can trust and bring yourself forward and in a way that artificial intelligence could never do. It's not just about aesthetics. It's about the truth that comes in the eyes, right? It's very important.
Les: Okay. So, aside from being open-minded, are there maybe two or three things that you would advise all actors or even corporate guys that want headshots done - what they should be bringing or yeah, not necessarily practicing, but is there something that they should be bringing to every shoot?
Dwayne: Well, I think you should be rested. You know, one of the things that you know, we tell our corporate clients back in Canada that you know, bring your bring your good mindset. Have a good sleep and be prepared, so you really understand what what you want to get out of that, what you want to bring to the shoot. It's a collaborative experience. You can't just show up and let the photographer do all the work. you are bringing a lot of that work forward as well. And you know that will swing back to how do you choose a particular photographer? You want to use a photographer that also wants to do that collaborative dance with you. It's um yeah - again you're an actor. That's what acting is as well. It's not a singular experience. It's always going to be collaborative and dynamic and having a headshot is very much the same.
Les: So, is there anything else you'd like to add to our conversation?
Dwayne: Yeah, I I think what I'd like to say is I'm very grateful that you've brought these questions forward. I've had different interviews about what we do, but never from an actor's perspective. And it's quite interesting to have, you know, your curiosity and your specific questions sort of brought forward. It helps me understand a little, even a little more about what we're all about as a community. And o anyone who's going to view this will have a better understanding of the process and what that means from an actor's perspective. So I'm very grateful. Thank you.
Les: Thanks for answering the questions. I'm definitely leaving with a lot more insight on the other side as well. So, it's great.
Dwayne: Good. All right. Thank you.
Les: Well, thank you. Cheers.tion text goes here
